Ep 17. Children’s Gut Health interview with GP Dr. Gillian Jackson

Sam (: 00:00

Some sage advice on the way from GP Gillian Jackson on gut health in children and laying the foundation for their future good health.

Sam (: 00:26

Hi, it's Sam with Not Pasta Again, a podcast which is building a community of like-minded, busy people, whether parenting or not, who face the constant daily battle of what to feed the family. It's all about tackling the overwhelm in the kitchen, the monotony of weekly meal rotation, and sharing ideas to make the most of what we have in our cupboards and fridges so we can rustle up a meal really quickly for the family.

This episode is an interview with a GP about gut health and specifically looking at why this is important with children. But before we dive into that, it would be great if you could just hit the subscribe, like, or follow button on whatever player you are listening on. It doesn't cost you anything, but it will help the podcast be discovered by more people. So thank you in advance. I have absolutely loved the response to the last episode on Grow Your Own.

There have been some amazing pictures in my Facebook group, Let's Thermomix with Sam, where you are all showcasing the types of things that you are growing. There are tomatoes, there are herbs, there are windowsill plants, there are poly tunnels, there are potatoes, rows and rows of potatoes. There is so much going on in your gardens. Some of you have built kits so that you can just plant a few lettuces. And I just love the fact that this is happening.

Please keep updating us with what you're growing, how everything progresses, because soon we're going to be able to share different recipes and how we can use that produce in those recipes. So more of that definitely to come in future episodes. So on with the episode and my guest who is joining me today, GP Gillian Jackson. Welcome Gillian, how are you?

I'm good, yes, thank you. Busy day, but good.

Sam (: 02:12

Yeah. Every day's a busy day, right? All right. So we're going to crack on with the conversation in a little while, but just tell everyone a little bit about who you are, what your background is and what your sort of role in life is at the moment.

It is indeed.

GP Gillian (: 02:28

Well, I am a GP currently practising in Lincolnshire and I actually run my own women's health clinic as well because my background before I became a GP was in women's health obstetrics and gynaecology. I'm also married to an Air Force pilot and that's why I'm in Lincolnshire and we have two little girls who are five and six.

So you're working week, is that every day is a working day?

Every day's a working day anyway, I think, when you're a mum. It's just what sort of work you're doing, isn't it? But yeah, most, I work sort of two or three days, clinical. I pick up extra shifts here and there, and then the rest of it is home, mum kind of work, really, yeah.

You're right, we are working regardless of whether it's paid work or not. Really good point, I like that. Okay, so we're gonna be focusing our chat today on gut health and specifically in relation to children and why that is something that is important. And I'm gonna be completely honest at the outset, I think gut health is a really, I almost want to say trendy subject in the sense that it gets a lot of coverage in the media, but I'd only ever thought about it in relation to adults.

So I think this is a really interesting conversation. So tell me a little bit about what you mean when we talk about gut health in children.

GP Gillian (: 03:49

Well, I mean, it's difficult, isn't it, to get that concept across to children. But I talk to my children about having good bugs in their tummy because they understand what bugs are. They're told to wash their hands all the time and they're told what dirty and clean is and that sort of thing. So they understand what bugs are and they can make them poorly. But I talk to my kids about the bugs in their tummy as well and how they need feeding and they need feeding with real foods. They need feeding with...

know, vegetables and lots of fibre and that sort of thing. And even though they might not like the taste of some of those things, they're really good for their bugs. And that's how I kind of get my kids to interact with their bugs, sort of thinking that they're sort of helping them and working together to make their body strong and make them able to do all the things that they want to do with lots of energy.

Okay, that's a really good way of thinking about it. And I guess in the first instance, I'm keen to understand from your perspective as a GP, why is it important for us to start thinking about this with our children, not just sort of alleviate or forget about it?

I think all good health really stems from childhood and good health habits stem from childhood, don't they? And I think as a of millennial woman, I was brought up with the sort of closer magazines and that sort of thing and knowing exactly what your weight is on the scales and that sort of thing. And I think a lot of women of my generation have a really bad relationship with food. So I'm determined for my two children who are both girls.

to have a very different relationship with food and for them to see it as a source of fuel, to see it as something that helps their body, helps their bugs, keeps their gut health healthy, which in turn keeps their brain healthy, their muscles going and all those things that allows them to do the things they want to do and be the person they want to be rather than it being a source of...

GP Gillian (: 05:53

concern, a source of worry, know, something that you're always thinking about that dominates your brain. And I think a lot of women of, you know, that sort of generation really do feel like that and have quite a quite a bad relationship with food. Getting the right balance of, you know, that macronutrients is really important for going through adolescence, you know, to sort of stave off energy dips, keeping mood swings in check, particularly for girls, you know, going through that period.

And, you know, some people are just more genetically predisposed to developing things like diabetes, what we call metabolic syndrome, so things like gout, heart disease as they get older, and also things like gestational diabetes as well, which obviously affects only women, that's diabetes caused by pregnancy. And there's definitely some sort of genetic trait, I think, that predisposes people to

not handling blood sugars and things that well. And I think a lot of processed food contributes to that. So I think that's why thinking about your gut as a part of your body that needs really well looking after is the gateway to preventing chronic disease and preventing disease that could be caused essentially by not making particularly brilliant food choices.

You said something really interesting and I've just been holding onto it in my head because I think maybe it's not always known by people that your gut is connected to your brain health, that it is connected to other things that are happening in your body. Can you explain a little bit more about that and how and why that sort of happens? And it's important to understand that.

Yeah, I think it's not a particularly well understood area of medicine. There's a lot of research and things going on, but there's certainly hormones that are released by the gut that are stimulated by certain bugs that live in the gut that affect brain health. So all your sort of happy hormones, your serotonin, oxytocin, all that sort of thing. And then you've got your opposite hormones that cause stress, cortisol, adrenaline, that clearly in some way are

GP Gillian (: 08:10

balanced and affected by what's going on in your gut. Like I said, it's quite difficult to explain it fully. And I don't think that anybody has the full answers or a full understanding of that. But essentially, you know, through fear of over complicating it, eating well, eating lots of fiber, vegetables, minimizing processed foods and all these additives is going to be much better for your gut microbiome, your gut bacteria, and is going to affect your body.

in positive way, in summary.

In summary, because it is a huge topic, isn't it? And again, you've introduced that word microbiome, which might be an alien word to some people. Could you simplify what that is and why that's important, maybe?

So when we talk about the microbiome, we mean all the bugs that are sort of throughout your body, which we have lots of. There are lots of areas of the body that contain more bugs than others. And the gut obviously is a very saturated sink of those bugs. 50 % of your fecal matter is bacteria. There's trillions, millions of these things in us.

So that's what we mean by the microbiome. It's a sort of mutual existence that we have with all the bugs that live on our skin, live in our mouth, live in our gut.

Sam (: 09:35

It's funny, isn't it? love the fact that your children understand that the bugs are good, that there are, that because bugs in, you know, lots of children's minds would, would be, ooh, nasty things. But when did you start that conversation? What age do you think they sort of can get it?

I think it starts so early because I mean, I remember at nursery, you know, they would cough into their elbow and talk about, you know, not spreading their germs and their bugs. And they were probably two and a half, maybe something like that. So I just, not a counter narrative, but as you know, a slightly different perspective from just having bad bugs.

and thinking about bugs that we have on our skin, we don't want to wash them all away, we don't want to use products that wash them all away because actually they look after us as well. And the same applies to the gut and taking antibiotics as well. I'm very cautious about whether I prescribe antibiotics or not because I think often actually they do quite a few more harms than they do good for most illnesses that children pick up.

It's a tricky one, isn't it? Because as a parent, you just want your child to feel better and feel well. And then there's that sort of awareness and it's sort of, guess you play a role in helping that decision.

Yeah, exactly.

Sam (: 10:55

Yeah. So beyond sort of understanding what food to put into a child's body, like you've referenced, you know, some of the general characteristics like lots of fiber, for example, and you've also mentioned perhaps limit additives and preservatives and those sorts of things, because that will negatively harm the gut and the gut bacteria that's in there, the good bugs. How might a parent

notice that perhaps the gut health isn't the greatest in sort of any behavioral ways. Is that something that would be evident?

I think that that would be my thoughts on this, not scientific evidence. I don't know how we could feed children things that aren't food and not expect some sort of manifestation of that physically, whether that's lacking in energy, whether it's behavioural issues, whether it's emotional issues. I think if you're not feeding your children real food,

I just inherently, instinctively think there's probably going to be a consequence to that. Probably not in all children. I don't want to sound too dramatic about it, but I just don't see how if you're feeding your child essentially chemicals most days, that they're going to thrive. You you notice a lot of children will become constipated if you have a particularly good diet. That doesn't mean that a constipated child has a bad diet.

the two things are quite different. I don't want any mums who have a child with constipation thinking they're doing the wrong thing when they're not necessarily. Your constipation is a problem in itself. Very smelly poos as well sometimes, but if your child does have really smelly acrid type poos and they're going sort of more than two or three times a day, that would be important to consult a GP with because it can be the sign of other actual problems and not just their diet.

GP Gillian (: 12:53

But yeah, I do think a lot of the sort of behavioural and emotional issues are probably related to the food that children eat.

Yeah, definitely. And I think it's interesting as well, because I've got two children, and I can see that the same food can impact the children differently. So how do you manage that and discuss that with some of the parents you meet?

So I tend to approach this with a sort of whatever, you know, whatever you're, say for example, it's an overweight child or a child that, an older child maybe that's sort of pre-diabetic, that sort of thing. I would say whatever they're eating, it's not working for them. So your other child who's skinny and healthy and does loads of sport and eats the same thing is essentially getting away with it genetically because some people just do.

but whatever your other child is eating and doing, it's not working for them. So that it needs to change. And it's really as straightforward as that. There isn't a golden recipe, you know, for higher populations of people and of children. It is about finding out what's not quite working for them if they do show any signs of health or behavioral problems, I think.

I think one of the things I've experienced is one of my children knows what doesn't suit them and has got to that point and will actually request not to have a sandwich because he doesn't want the bread because there is a consequence for him. And I think that's, it's that sort of sense of listening as well, isn't it? And recognizing those sorts of things as well, because they will know.

GP Gillian (: 14:37

Yeah, absolutely. children are actually really good, I think, at making those connections. They know if they eat a certain thing and then they feel a certain way, they're not going to do it again because they didn't like it last time. Unlike us who will have hangover after hangover in our 30s after drinking too much wine. Well, 40s food, Life goes on.

Only in our 30s?

GP Gillian (: 15:04

I'm only saying 30 because I didn't get a hangover in my 20s. But children, they are, they're smarter than that. They know if they don't feel great and they will attribute that to something.

Yes, sorry.

Sam (: 15:17

And it's so interesting, isn't it? Because even when I think about myself and one of the reasons that you obviously know that I've got a thermomix was because of certain foods not suiting me. And I had reached a point where I would eat them because I liked the food, but then I got to a point where I couldn't bear the consequence. So I guess it's interesting to sort of say to parents, actually do really pay attention, listen. And if it's not working for them, don't make them potentially have it. It's an interesting one.

Yeah.

So if we were to just sit here now and sort of say in an ideal world, what sort of would be some of the changes or foods that you would suggest parents could give to their children for breakfast, for lunch, for dinner, so that there is a healthy gut in a child, generically? I know it's different, but you know what I mean? Yeah.

I know it's whatever works, isn't it? I mean, one of the simplest things to do, and this is not culturally acceptable, you know, in our world, but giving your kids leftover dinner for breakfast is probably one of the most nutritious, easiest, quickest things that you can possibly do. And we think it's weird because we've grown up on processed cereals and sweetened yogurts and, you know, carbohydrate-based breakfast basically that's quick and easy. But actually,

it's not particularly nutritious and it does cause an immediate sort of spike of energy and then a dip towards the middle of the day and actually just having something left over. If you don't have that, we always have cold boiled eggs in the fridge. Our kids will just crack an egg and they like peeling it and then they might dip it in some ketchup or whatever. But they're quite used to having eggs for breakfast and sort of more savoury things as well. I always have bit of mackerel in the fridge.

GP Gillian (: 17:05

or you know those shop-bought tortillas, I know this isn't very thermo-race, but those shop-bought tortillas, the cold ones, the potato and egg ones, I think they're brilliant. Often give them a slice of them if they're not full after they've had their regular breakfast. Porridge obviously is an obvious one. If your child won't eat porridge though that can be difficult. Overnight oats as well. Most kids will eat one or a combination of those things. I think...

you know, the one of the biggest, easiest wins is leftovers of food you've cooked yourself.

So I used to work in research and breakfast cereal, breakfast is a manufacturer's dream. It is purely, you know, bright colored, you know, rice, I'm going to call them rice pops because I think that's what they're called in Australia. They're not called that here, rice krispies, aren't they? You know, bright colored sweetened corn flakes, you know, everything is bright and it's, like you say, it's not a nutritious way to start the day. Nor is it good for our gut, I would say.

I don't think it does very much for your gut at all. Obviously there's fibre, isn't there, bit of fibre in process and they are fortified. So they do have extra vitamin D and magnesium and various B vitamins and things. So they're not all bad. I don't want people to feel really awful if they're given their kids rice krispies every morning because my kids do eat rice krispies. That's good. They also have other things as well. So there are good points as well, but there's not a huge amount.

nutrition and it doesn't keep them full for very long.

Sam (: 18:42

Yeah, definitely. I have been a proponent for eating real food at breakfast. So I will have stir-fried veggies with scrambled eggs. And my eldest now sort of joins me with that and will even have some smoked salmon and some avocado. I mean, he's just eating the breakfast for kings, but just sets him up really well for a good day. Whereas, yeah, the other one.

less likely to eat those sorts of things. So those differences. So what about probiotics and prebiotics when we think about children? Obviously, is that a relevant conversation?

think those sorts of things are products. They are very good sources of income for food companies. And I think that we get most of our nutrition and health from just normal foods, to be honest. I wouldn't suggest that you gave a child those particularly. I mean, it's essentially yogurt, you know, that's not pasteurized overly. So if you just buy natural sort of live yogurt,

mix a bit of jam with it or some fruit purees and squashed apples or something like that. I think you're probably getting similar benefits to all these sort of probiotic probiotic products. Yeah.

No, it's interesting, isn't it? Because you sort of, you read things in magazines, you see things in the press and you're never, if you're never a hundred percent sure, it's always nice to understand, well, is that relevant? And if it doesn't need to be, and it can be the benefits from something like a yogurt can be gained, then that's brilliant for children. And then you've touched on sort of the sugar and the ultra processed foods a little bit in your earlier conversations as well. How much does that affect the gut?

Sam (: 20:29

Or is it just a behavior or are they linked? Like what's going on there?

That's a really, really good question. And I don't know the full answer to that. Again, it's more of my instinct and a lot of the things that I've listened to, source of information that I've read, et cetera. I think this space gets very overcomplicated. And I think we should try and keep it as simple as possible. It's about eating whole foods that are good for your bugs, good for your gut, which in turn is good for your body, which is good for your brain.

and vice versa. You know, I just, I really struggled to make it any more complicated than that. I think just less complicated is less complicated, isn't it? You know, it's, the thing is, as well, you know, the best diets and the best foods and the best this and the best that is the thing that the person can do. And, you know, like the best

like it. Less is more, less is more.

GP Gillian (: 21:29

Moisturiser I can prescribe is the one the person will use. You know, if I prescribe one that's too thick or sticky, they won't use it. So it's not any good, even if it's amazing in clinical trials. And that's the same with food. You know, it's great having this meal plan, you even if you wanted to increase your kids nutrition, if they're not going to eat it, it's not a very good meal plan. Do you know what I mean? I just don't want it to be any more complicated than that.

It's, but it makes me think about the fact that there's so much overwhelm in a parent's world anyway, you know, and they're trying to get a decent diet in front of their children. And there's so many other things that are happening. And at the end of the day, you know, you just want them to eat as well, don't you? So, you know, what would be your sort of top tips on just feeling okay about what you're giving and what should, you know.

What should we be aiming for as a parent at that younger kid's sort of stage of life?

think whatever you can control, control it, because there'll be so many other things that are out of your control that you can't really do anything about. And I don't see the point really in worrying about those things in kids. Yes, they're going to eat sweets, of course going to eat processed food. They're not going to eat everything perfectly. And that's okay because their kids and their bodies are resilient. You know, they will manage with, you know, a bit of bad food.

bad food here and there. So as a parent, think, and this is certainly what we do, is just really focus on the things that you can control. When you're having a meal out, example, choose something that is more nutritious rather than not. Get them to eat their, often foods in pubs now come with crudités and salads and things. Try and get them to eat those first and then go on to the sort of the beige things that come after.

GP Gillian (: 23:32

when you're at home, make sure that the food you give them is as nutritious as possible. Minimize sort of what I call oven food. The stuff that comes out of boxes and the stuff that someone else has made essentially. you know, it sounds like a bit of a luxury and I am a working woman myself. I do understand the time pressures. But I think also getting you

kids when they're of a certain age to be involved, cutting peppers with scissors, cutting tomatoes with scissors, that sort of thing. They prepare a lot of their own crudités and veggies and things that they eat now. And they're so much more engaged. They love eating things like that now. And that's, think, partly maybe because I have tried to involve them in it a bit.

I think that's really crucial getting them involved. And in a recent episode, we had a parenting guru and she was sort of saying, you need to put a food in front of a child at least, I think it was 20 times before they potentially will even try it. Which is so fascinating because as a parent of a fussy child, after about four or five times, I was just like, right, well, I'll never serve that again. And actually, if I just kept doing it, perhaps.

there would be more involvement. And I know since I got the Thermomix in my world that my youngest child got involved and started eating way better. What are some of your go-to meals then with your kids, would you say? know, busy parent like you've just said, just to give people some ideas that it doesn't have to be perfect. I'm just going to put that out there.

None of my food is perfect at all. It's very, very basic actually. I keep things very basic. I stick to macros that I know they sort of need. So I'll often just serve some oven-cooked salmon with some roasted new potatoes and then some steamed greens and a bit of butter and lemon. Really easy go-to meals. Tonight we've just had...

GP Gillian (: 25:34

some frozen prawns, chorizo, which I always have in the fridge. Just mix those together in a frying pan and did some pasta with some spinach and lemon through it. Nothing fancy, nothing that would make an Instagram post. But perfectly nutritious, nothing nasty in any of it. Well, maybe the chorizo's got nitrates. Maybe. like a very small amount.

Yeah, I'm to think what else to stick to. a baked, you know, microwave sweet potato with some tuna and creme fraiche on the top. Again, you know, some peppers, chopped up carrots, cucumber, tomatoes. I know it all sounds a bit samey and we think, giving kids like crudités all the time, but they don't really care. You know, they just, they actually really, I think, like eating with you, you know, and they do like sitting down and having a chat and things now. And they do get...

quite proud of themselves when they eat good stuff for their bugs, you know, they're like, mommy, do think my bugs will be happy after this?

I love that. Like that you have created that sort of conversation around it because just like we've said, get people, get them involved with the food. If they're actively engaged in understanding something in a way like that, then they're going to be more engaged with looking after those bugs, aren't they? Any other tips?

That's the idea, think, as they go throughout life, definitely.

Sam (: 27:03

Hmm. Any other strange tips? Like the bugs, have they got names or anything like that?

Not gone that far. Might reach for that one if it starts to of dwindle. No, I think just having stuff in your fridge that's pre-cooked, I think that's a big thing, isn't it? Because we live in such a fast-paced world and it's so much easier to reach for convenience foods that have already been made by someone else. But like I said, if you have things like boiled eggs and chopped up veg already in your fridge that you can just reach for.

all away.

GP Gillian (: 27:38

having homemade dips and hummus and pea dips. They love a pea and mint dip. Just getting round to it, making it this thick. That's why I need a thermomix.

It's to get easier soon. All right. So finally, in relation to the food and the health and understanding that it's important with children of all ages, what would be your one key message that you'd give to parents listening to us chatting now?

think I've probably already given it and that is to not over complicate this. Do not overthink it. You know, it's really straightforward. Feed your kids good whole foods, avoid, you know, sweeteners and processed foods, additives, e-numbers, flavorings, all that sort of thing, because it's just not doing them any favors later in life.

It can be quite difficult, I think, for some people who think, can't detox my child off this stuff. It's really hard. But once you've done it, when they taste those things again, they're like, oh, this is really weird. My kids, when I feed them sort of fake-ish food, they're like, mommy, this has got a weird taste. You know, they're like super sluice. They notice it now. Yeah, they do. They really do.

Children notice everything.

GP Gillian (: 28:57

Yeah, and I think the other thing as well, I don't want to sound preachy or anything, but I never let my kids eat food while they're doing something else. So they sit down, they're not walking around, they're not watching telly, they're not listening to anything. They're sat down, they're eating food and the only other distraction they have is us, know, as in us eating with them, being around a table. And I think because if kids are so distracted with other entertainment and that sort of thing.

They don't really taste the food. They're not really registering the food that they're eating, you know, which again, I don't think is a particularly good habit for the future.

I absolutely love that because I think we are so not present in lots of situations. And actually if we teach our children to be present at the table, like you say, it just creates a different relationship, doesn't it? With the food, the relationship is with the food. And like you say, the conversation that's happening with the people, that's a really nice point. I really, really like that. Before we sort of start wrapping up the conversation, thank you so much for everything you've said so far. I guess what's a...

pretty important sort of thought is, there any longer term benefits to focusing on the gut health of your child? What would you say in relation to that?

I think probably touched on it earlier in terms of prevention of chronic disease really. you know, we think of chronic disease as something that hits us in our 50s, 60s, 70s, but the precursors to that, you know, the habits that lead up to some of those preventable chronic diseases, they are without shadow of a doubt established in childhood. And I think if you can give your child, you know, a really good relationship with food,

GP Gillian (: 30:44

I think that's probably the key to maintaining their gut health, which then carries on into adulthood. And I do believe that having good gut health does prevent, helps prevent certainly a lot of longer term chronic disease associated with midlife and older age.

Yeah, I think again, you've touched on something that you've just made me think of something. I can always remember my mum trying to feed me just really healthy food that I just didn't want to eat. But you move out of home or you go to secondary school and you get to go to the supermarket. I'm talking about probably my children. And you go and buy a bag of sweets. You're going to do that as a child, like you said as well earlier. But I'm hoping that with what I feed in that whole food sense at home, that

When they then get to a certain age, be that their late twenties or their early thirties or whatever, there's going to be a return to actually real food is the better food. So like you say, it's establishing, even if that behavior falls away for a certain part of their world, there is always the hope and chance that it will be where they return to.

Yeah, I think you're laying the foundations, aren't you, in childhood? You know, can't control an 18 or 25 year old. You just do your own thing and your body's so resilient at that age. But it does kick in, you know, in your 30s and you realise actually, oh, you know, I do need to start looking after my body. And I think once you've had those foundations laid, you know, it's invaluable.

Yep, and they're there. All right, so let's move on now. Talked a little bit, or I've referenced the Thermomix a couple of times during our conversation, and you have recently ordered one from me, or with me. Tell me a little bit about that decision. What led you to want one?

GP Gillian (: 32:34

So, I mean, you can probably tell from all the things I've said, I'm quite into, you know, a sort of an unprocessed food diet, but I'm also working them and I don't have the time to be making my own hummus and curry pastes and pesto and all that sort of thing as much as I would absolutely love to do that. And the Thermomix to me presented that opportunity and I just thought, oh, like,

I could actually live this sort of fantastical life that I'd always wanted in my head when it comes to food in the kitchen with a thermomix. And I don't actually know how I would achieve that in any other way. just wouldn't, I just, I mean, I buy expensive things from the supermarkets that don't have additives in them, but I would much prefer to make them myself so I know exactly what's going into them. And obviously it's the time as well. Like I would like to be able to leave food, cooking.

you know, in my kitchen while I'm doing some maths work with my kids because at the moment I can't do both or when I do try and do both I do both not particularly well or burn something or whatever or shout at them for not doing this right or that right. Whereas, know, with this I think I'll be able to, you know, leave that to itself and then get on with doing actually more things with my children.

No, all of that, all of the above is absolutely going to be something that is going to be achievable. And I did like, and I'm going to reference it, that you said that you could live a mother earth kind of life.

Yeah, be that that mother I've always wanted to be but modern society hasn't allowed.

Sam (: 34:19

Yeah, exactly. And it's true. mean, you are going to be able to enjoy all of those things that you've just described. You can do the maths homework whilst your really healthy dinner is cooking and all those sorts of things. I also think that you'll enjoy your children being involved even more with the process of making food as well. So one of the questions I always ask guests that come on the podcast is how would you describe a thermomix to somebody who knows absolutely nothing about it? Because

think it's 88 % of the population in the UK do not know what a thermomix is.

So the way that I've described it to my kids is that it's like a mini kitchen robot and it's gonna help mommy be less stressed and have more time to do fun things with them. I would probably describe it as an aid, yeah, an aid in the kitchen, like a kitchen helper, think. Something that's sort of able to do the sort of...

the low level labour that we all have to do in the kitchen these days, standing and stirring, using our brains after a hard day's work where we've got three things on the hob at once and we're trying to time this and that and the other. And my working day is so intense, I don't have the capacity really to do that. And that's why I avoid cooking a lot of the time when I get in from work, because it's just too stressful in my brain.

I would describe the thermix as something that takes that pressure off and enables you to actually get in and relax. That's what I'm really hoping it will do for me. It will. Yeah, a kitchen robot, I guess. Yeah.

Sam (: 36:02

kitchen robot who's a helping hand at the same time. Yeah. That's brilliant. A brilliant answer. Thank you. Final question that I always ask people as well. If there were no boundaries, no restrictions, no fussy children, and you had all the time in the world, what would be your one meal of choice that you would choose to prepare and cook?

Ooh, that's a really good question. And do you know what? My kids asked me this earlier today. I answered with a lovely rump steak with sweet potato fries and lovely buttered spinach. I know it sounds really simple, but I do actually like just really simple tasty food. But that would probably be my last meal if I had to have one. And it's because actually I've had it with my husband quite a few times on.

really nice occasions like special birthdays and things so maybe that's why it's not just the food it's the situation that it brings back to me as well.

Nostalgic food. Again, food can be nostalgic. It plays so many roles in our lives, right? Amazing. Thank you so much for talking to us today. It has been brilliant. I have learnt lots of good things. I wish I'd talked to my children about the good bugs in their bodies because I think it would have helped one of them in particular. And yeah, just thank you so much for sharing all of that information. It was brilliant.

You're very welcome, it's a pleasure.

Sam (: 37:25

One final thing, if people wanted to get in touch with you, to follow you, where can we actually find you in, I guess, in social media or anywhere else?

Yes, I am on Instagram, just at Dr. Jillian Jackson, DR Jillian Jackson, all one word. And I do have a website as well. That's the linkenshirewomensclinic.co.uk.

Perfect. I will add it to the show notes so everyone will be able to find you and hopefully start following you. So thank you again for your time. So that's it for another episode. Thank you for listening. And just to sum up some of my key outtakes, I would say the way we feed our children at an early age really is the foundation for how they're going to view food moving forward and growing up. So I would say as much as possible, the message that Gillian also shared with us about keeping it simple.

great, thank you.

Sam (: 38:18

We don't need to overcomplicate what we feed our children. So whole foods as much as possible. And if we do that, if we keep it simple, then we're probably going to reduce that feeling of overwhelm that we can sometimes have in our kitchen. Keep in touch. You know you can email me on notpastaregain at hotmail.com or I'm always available for a chat in the Facebook group, Let's Thermomix with Sam. So until then, let's continue to flourish and not flounder when it comes to providing meals for the family.